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	<title>Comments on: Scrabulous Hangs On for Now (But It Should Be Hung Out to Dry by Facebook)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/</link>
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		<title>By: Steve Foerster</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2829</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Foerster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2829</guid>
		<description>Okay, I&#039;m confused.  Exactly which intellectual property issue is there here?  Scrabulous doesn&#039;t use the Scrabble trademark, because the name of the game is different.  Scrabble is so old that it wouldn&#039;t still be under patent even if that were possible, which it isn&#039;t.  

As for copyright, it&#039;s possible to copyright artistic presentation, like the text of rules for a game, but it&#039;s not possible to copyright the rules themselves, i.e., the algorithm behind the same.  That&#039;s why enthusiasts of the first edition of Dungeons and Dragons are in the clear even though they&#039;ve released a gamed called OSRIC that uses the exact same rules:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSRIC

So couldn&#039;t one argue that Scrabulous is to Scrabble as OSRIC is to D&amp;D?  If not, why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;m confused.  Exactly which intellectual property issue is there here?  Scrabulous doesn&#8217;t use the Scrabble trademark, because the name of the game is different.  Scrabble is so old that it wouldn&#8217;t still be under patent even if that were possible, which it isn&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>As for copyright, it&#8217;s possible to copyright artistic presentation, like the text of rules for a game, but it&#8217;s not possible to copyright the rules themselves, i.e., the algorithm behind the same.  That&#8217;s why enthusiasts of the first edition of Dungeons and Dragons are in the clear even though they&#8217;ve released a gamed called OSRIC that uses the exact same rules:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSRIC" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSRIC</a></p>
<p>So couldn&#8217;t one argue that Scrabulous is to Scrabble as OSRIC is to D&amp;D?  If not, why not?</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Budd</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2747</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Budd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2747</guid>
		<description>The game was created 70 years ago, should it now be in the commons?

There is a great tradition in personal computing of copying other&#039;s interfaces and experiences.

I agree that there are real intellectual property issues in the experience of Scrabulous and Facebook&#039;s lack of action, but terms like shoplifting, piracy, and the like don&#039;t speak to the issue in the eyes of the the younger generations. Shop lifting is a concept of physical theft. I think you have have seen one too many movies that started with the ad, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPcHhOBd-hI&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;You won&#039;t steal a car would you?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The game was created 70 years ago, should it now be in the commons?</p>
<p>There is a great tradition in personal computing of copying other&#8217;s interfaces and experiences.</p>
<p>I agree that there are real intellectual property issues in the experience of Scrabulous and Facebook&#8217;s lack of action, but terms like shoplifting, piracy, and the like don&#8217;t speak to the issue in the eyes of the the younger generations. Shop lifting is a concept of physical theft. I think you have have seen one too many movies that started with the ad, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPcHhOBd-hI" rel="nofollow">You won&#8217;t steal a car would you?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kara Swisher</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Swisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>Erik:

How cynical! But how true!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik:</p>
<p>How cynical! But how true!</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Larson</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2620</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2620</guid>
		<description>&quot;...shoplifting should not be the way businesses are formed in the Web 2.0 economy.&quot;  I think it&#039;s about 8 years too late for that.  Shoplifting has been the primary way the most popular web 2.0 businesses have been formed since the original web 2.0 breakout, Napster.  YouTube, the biggest web 2.0 liquidity event, only gained its popularity from copyrighted content and &quot;Don&#039;t be Evil&quot; Google was more than happy to validate its methods.  Facebook?  Started by Zuckerberg stealing private data from Harvard.  Sure there are exceptions (e.g. myspace although even that is debatable), but I&#039;d say the rule of breakout web 2.0 hits is shoplifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;shoplifting should not be the way businesses are formed in the Web 2.0 economy.&#8221;  I think it&#8217;s about 8 years too late for that.  Shoplifting has been the primary way the most popular web 2.0 businesses have been formed since the original web 2.0 breakout, Napster.  YouTube, the biggest web 2.0 liquidity event, only gained its popularity from copyrighted content and &#8220;Don&#8217;t be Evil&#8221; Google was more than happy to validate its methods.  Facebook?  Started by Zuckerberg stealing private data from Harvard.  Sure there are exceptions (e.g. myspace although even that is debatable), but I&#8217;d say the rule of breakout web 2.0 hits is shoplifting.</p>
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		<title>By: Kara Swisher</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2614</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Swisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2614</guid>
		<description>Jason:

I would hope so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason:</p>
<p>I would hope so!</p>
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		<title>By: Kara Swisher</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2613</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Swisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2613</guid>
		<description>Alex:

Trademark, first and foremost. But come on! Scrabulous is such an obvious rip-off and really low rent. Also, it is the same game.

Why don&#039;t you start the Mall Street Journal? Use our content while you are at it!

I do not think Hasbro/Mattel is trying to prevent the use, but have some control over a brand name they own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex:</p>
<p>Trademark, first and foremost. But come on! Scrabulous is such an obvious rip-off and really low rent. Also, it is the same game.</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you start the Mall Street Journal? Use our content while you are at it!</p>
<p>I do not think Hasbro/Mattel is trying to prevent the use, but have some control over a brand name they own.</p>
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		<title>By: Kara Swisher</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2612</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Swisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2612</guid>
		<description>Janek:

You make excellent points, but the fact of the matter is is that it is Facebook&#039;s town and it is responsible for the behavior of those who live there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janek:</p>
<p>You make excellent points, but the fact of the matter is is that it is Facebook&#8217;s town and it is responsible for the behavior of those who live there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason C</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2610</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2610</guid>
		<description>Clearly, Facebook employees do not want to see Scrabulous taken down.  My guess is that there is a lot going on behind the scenes to make sure that Scrabulous sticks around.

http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=5306887130</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly, Facebook employees do not want to see Scrabulous taken down.  My guess is that there is a lot going on behind the scenes to make sure that Scrabulous sticks around.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=5306887130" rel="nofollow">http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=5306887130</a></p>
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		<title>By: alex curtis</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2606</link>
		<dc:creator>alex curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2606</guid>
		<description>Kara,

It would really help if you could dig a little deeper and identify exactly what &quot;rights&quot; are being disputed here.  Are there claims of Trademark infringement? Copyright infringement? Patent infringement?

It&#039;s important because it sounds like Hasbro/Mattel/EA are somehow trying to prevent the digital game from being played (regardless of whether the name of it sounds like &quot;Scrabble&quot;), when all they really own is the right to the name &quot;Scrabble.&quot;  Are those companies claiming they own the right to the way the game is played?  That would be kind of like the playing card manufacturer Bicycle trying to restrict online Poker, or preventing Microsoft from bundling Solitaire with Windows.

Please let us know what really is going on here because all &quot;rights&quot; are not equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kara,</p>
<p>It would really help if you could dig a little deeper and identify exactly what &#8220;rights&#8221; are being disputed here.  Are there claims of Trademark infringement? Copyright infringement? Patent infringement?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important because it sounds like Hasbro/Mattel/EA are somehow trying to prevent the digital game from being played (regardless of whether the name of it sounds like &#8220;Scrabble&#8221;), when all they really own is the right to the name &#8220;Scrabble.&#8221;  Are those companies claiming they own the right to the way the game is played?  That would be kind of like the playing card manufacturer Bicycle trying to restrict online Poker, or preventing Microsoft from bundling Solitaire with Windows.</p>
<p>Please let us know what really is going on here because all &#8220;rights&#8221; are not equal.</p>
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		<title>By: IanSchafer.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scrabulous Update: Saved?</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2605</link>
		<dc:creator>IanSchafer.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scrabulous Update: Saved?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2605</guid>
		<description>[...] Swisher at AllThingsD gives us an update on Scrabulous. It looks like it may be saved after [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Swisher at AllThingsD gives us an update on Scrabulous. It looks like it may be saved after [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scrabulous vs Hasbro &#124; Ugh!!&#8217;s Greymatter Honeypot</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2604</link>
		<dc:creator>Scrabulous vs Hasbro &#124; Ugh!!&#8217;s Greymatter Honeypot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2604</guid>
		<description>[...] removed, but it could simply be an application glitch at this stage. I&#8217;m not denying that Hasbro own the rights to the game, but there are so many win-win scenarios they could spin from this situation that they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] removed, but it could simply be an application glitch at this stage. I&#8217;m not denying that Hasbro own the rights to the game, but there are so many win-win scenarios they could spin from this situation that they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Janek Mann</title>
		<link>http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2601</link>
		<dc:creator>Janek Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080125/scrabulous-hangs-on-for-now-but-it-should-be-hung-out-to-dry-by-facebook/#comment-2601</guid>
		<description>Facebook is no doubt trying (rather sensibly) to establish common carrier status with regards to the applications that interact with the Facebook platform.

And they may have ground to stand on, as the applications are after all hosted on the servers of the Scrabulous developers and Facebook merely provides the services of a directory of applications, an API for accessing the user information as well as a unified interface for applications.

The fact that Facebook convert from the FBML output of the application to the HTML rendered by the browser might be an issue, as arguably the perception is given that the application is being served from Facebook&#039;s servers and appears to be a part of Facebook through the tight integration.

If it weren&#039;t for the fact that Facebook applications are typically only available through facebook this integration step could be seen as analogous to say a site like stumbleupon.

Arguably OpenSocial provides an advantage here as the relationship between application and social network is much more loosely coupled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facebook is no doubt trying (rather sensibly) to establish common carrier status with regards to the applications that interact with the Facebook platform.</p>
<p>And they may have ground to stand on, as the applications are after all hosted on the servers of the Scrabulous developers and Facebook merely provides the services of a directory of applications, an API for accessing the user information as well as a unified interface for applications.</p>
<p>The fact that Facebook convert from the FBML output of the application to the HTML rendered by the browser might be an issue, as arguably the perception is given that the application is being served from Facebook&#8217;s servers and appears to be a part of Facebook through the tight integration.</p>
<p>If it weren&#8217;t for the fact that Facebook applications are typically only available through facebook this integration step could be seen as analogous to say a site like stumbleupon.</p>
<p>Arguably OpenSocial provides an advantage here as the relationship between application and social network is much more loosely coupled.</p>
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